FEATURE:
Paul McCartney at Eighty
IN THIS PHOTO: Paul McCartney in 1964/PHOTO CREDIT: RA/Lebrecht Music & Arts
Paul McCartney and Me: The Interviews: Chris Shaw
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AS I continue my run of features…
IN THIS PHOTO: Chris Shaw (right) with the world’s leading authority/historian of The Beatles’ work, Mark Lewisohn (he appeared on I am the EggPod in 2019)/PHOTO CREDIT: Chris Shaw/I am the EggPod
to celebrate the eightieth birthday of Paul McCartney in June, I am publishing interviews with fans of his work. For this interview, I am featuring the brilliant Chris Shaw. He runs the amazing podcast, I am the EggPod. On his podcast – which recently reached the one-hundred episodes mark -, Chris chats with a selection of guests about Beatles and solo Beatles albums. Through the years, he has discussed many Paul McCartney solo, Wings and Beatles albums. There are few better qualified people to chat with when it comes to Paul McCartney! Here, Chris reveals when he discovered McCartney, what he thought about the recent The Beatles: Get Back three-part documentary, what songs Macca might play during his much-anticipated Glastonbury headline set in June (only a few days after his eightieth birthday), and what it is like watching the icon perform live. It has been fascinating discovering what Chris had to say about Paul McCartney, and what his music means to him. Macca is, to Chris, to me, and to so many people, someone who has a very special place…
IN THIS PHOTO: Paul McCartney in Scotland in 1971/PHOTO CREDIT: Linda McCartney
IN our hearts.
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Hi Chris. In the lead-up to Paul McCartney’s eightieth birthday on 18th June, I am interviewing different people about their love of his music and when they first discovered the work of a genius. When did you first discover Paul McCartney’s music? Was it a Beatles, Wings or solo album that lit that fuse?
They were always just *there*…so it was a gradual process - osmosis. I definitely remember singing Wings’ Mary Had a Little Lamb, so I’d have been two. But the Beatles 1976 mass singles reissue (not technically a reissue!) meant they were on the radio a lot. It must have been around then that I had the Dorothy-lands-in-Oz moment.
It took a while to try and get my head round the fact that Paul McCartney, who was always in the charts, was in fact Beatle Paul from all those years ago. A key moment was when I saw the Coming Up video with the multiple Maccas. There he is! Beatle Paul! It’s the same Paul! And he wrote those songs as well!
Like me, you must have been engrossed by The Beatles: Get Back on Disney+. How did it change your impression of The Beatles at that time, and specifically Paul McCartney’s role and influence on the rest of the band? Did you have any favourite moments from the three-part documentary?
Having heard the Nagras, I was aware that the mood was a lot lighter than had been reported. But to actually see the smiles and laughter was the best fun. With all this footage, certain audio moments finally made sense - for example, when John and Paul are having a (semi) mock argument in front of a microphone, it sounded brutal. However, now we know they’re playing up to the camera. Another highlight was to see the ‘supporting cast’.
Historically, Paul was cited as being pushy and overbearing - which is just a negative way of saying he was the driving force. He was vital in keeping the band going. Without Paul’s ambition, I doubt we’d have even got the Abbey Road album.
“Doing the EggPods has certainly reinforced my love of Paul’s music, and I hope it’s encouraged listeners to explore albums they may have not bothered with before”.
As you run I Am the EggPod (where guests discuss Beatles and solo Beatles albums), you have greater knowledge and experience of McCartney’s work than most. Has doing the podcast strengthened your appreciation of Paul McCartney or taught you anything new about him?
The main thing it’s taught me is that Beatles fans are rarely casual fans. Every guest has clearly been moved by the music, the story and the people - to the point where their knowledge and insight is often astounding. Doing the EggPods has certainly reinforced my love of Paul’s music, and I hope it’s encouraged listeners to explore albums they may have not bothered with before. I remember disliking a particular album when I was 14, and it was only recently I thought: “Why am I trusting the opinion of 14-year-old me?” - I played it, played it again, and fell in love.
Stupid 14-year-old me.
Are there any albums of his, either with Wings or solo, that you have come to love that you were previously indifferent to or unfamiliar with?
Definitely The Fireman’s Rushes album. Context is everything, and author John Higgs brought that one alive for me. What I once considered to be little more than boring trance, I now realise is a heartbreaking epitaph for Linda - we experience Paul’s grieving process and it’s incredibly moving.
My formative years were spent being ‘Team John’, especially after reading Ray Coleman’s Lennon biography. I also lost my mum at an early age, and my father was never around. So the story of John’s childhood always held a deep resonance for me.
“It was the hope, positivity and joy that burst from his songs that appealed so much”.
Now, looking back, I realise that it was actually Paul’s music that I listened to more. It was the hope, positivity and joy that burst from his songs that appealed so much. And now, I fully appreciate that positivity that’s been Paul’s trademark from day one. The loss of his mother will have torn him to shreds, but he took the decision to be positive - and it is a decision.
With Palo Verde from the Rushes album, Paul is suffering the raw loss of his soulmate, Linda. It’s a eulogy, but it’s in real-time. He is actually going through the mourning process as we listen - her voice whispering just out of reach, the ethereal sound of horses hooves, and Paul’s repeated refrain: “Let me love you always.” Paul shared this with the world (albeit under a pseudonym) and, despite the subject matter, we know that after this tragedy Paul moved on. We know he found happiness, and it was because he made that decision to be positive. It’s not easy - and easy to mock -, but it’s straight out of Romans for me: “Suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope.”
If you had to select your favourite Beatles, Wings and McCartney albums (one each), which would they be and why?
Beatles - impossible (it changes daily), but Paul & Linda’s Ram is my absolute favourite of any solo Fab album. It’s a masterclass in music, and for me stands alongside any Beatles album.
Paul McCartney, as a songwriter, means different things to different people. Do you think he is the greatest songwriter there has ever been?
By virtue of McCartney’s legacy so far, you cannot simply compare him with the best songwriters from his own lifetime - i.e. Brian Wilson, Goffin/King etc. You must include Gershwin, Mozart, Beethoven et al. And, as Stuart Maconie recently pointed out, his diversity far exceeds any of them. Music is by its very nature subjective, but if you list what Paul has achieved, there is nothing that comes remotely close.
So, yes. I do believe Paul McCartney is the greatest songwriter there has ever been.
You have seen McCartney live before. What is it like hearing his music in the flesh?
Oddly, of all the songs he played, the one that moved me and so many others around us was All My Loving. I guess it’s that realisation that the man on that stage actually wrote this historic song that has not only been part of the soundscape of your life, but helped define music.
“…I think it would be a powerful statement to play ‘Pipes of Peace’ - which he’s never played live before”.
McCartney is confirmed for Glastonbury as a headliner this year. I feel it will be one of the most uplifting and important gigs ever. What do you think we might expect from his Saturday night slot?
We mentioned it in a recent podcast, but I think it would be a powerful statement to play Pipes of Peace - which he’s never played live before. Now would be the perfect time.
Of course, we all love to see Beatles reissues and anniversary releases. Do you think we will see any in 2022? Any albums of theirs you would love to see get the Giles Martin treatment?
Give everything to Peter Jackson!
If you could get a single gift for McCartney for his eightieth birthday, what would you get him?
A framed photo of John.
Were you to have the chance to interview Paul McCartney, what is the one question you would ask him?
I’m left-handed. Can I have one of your guitars, please?
To end, I will round off the interview with a Macca song. It can be anything he has written or contributed to. Which song should I end with?
You Know My Name (Look up the Number). He once stated it was his favourite, as it conjured so many memories. That’s good enough reason!