INTERVIEW:
Graeme Thomson (Author of Under The Ivy: The Life and Music of Kate Bush)
_________
IT has been amazing…
interviewing author and journalist Graeme Thomson about the revised and updated version of his authoritative and magnificent Kate Bush book. The superb Under The Ivy: The Life and Music of Kate Bush is released on 27th June through Omnibus Press. Originally published in 2010, I have learned so much about Kate Bush through his writing and passionate, detailed research. An accessible and beautifully written biography, every Kate Bush fan, whether diehard or casual, needs to order a copy:
“The critically acclaimed definitive biography of Kate Bush, revised and updated for 2024, with a new foreword by Sinéad Gleeson.
Detailing everything from Bush’s upbringing to her early exposition of talent, to her subsequent evolution into a stunningly creative and endlessly fascinating visual and musical artist, Under The Ivy is the story of one woman's life in music. Written with great detail, accuracy and admiration for her work, this is in equal parts an in-depth biography and an immersive analysis of Kate Bush's art.
Focusing on her unique working methods, her studio techniques, her timeless albums and inescapable influence, Under The Ivy is an eminently readable and insightful exploration of one of the world's most unique and gifted artists. The text has been updated to include coverage of Bush’s return to the top of the charts in 2022 following the extraordinary resurgence of ‘Running Up That Hill.’ An eye-opening journey of discovery for anyone unfamiliar with the breadth of Bush’s work, Under The Ivy also rewards the long-term fan with new insights and fresh analysis”.
Given the unexpectedly busy past few years for Kate Bush and her music legacy, it is very apt that Under The Ivy: The Life and Music of Kate Bush has been revised. I have been speaking with Graeme Thomson about why he first decided the write the book, what we might expect from the 2024 edition, when he discovered Kate Bush, how Sinéad Gleeson was selected for the foreword, and which Kate Bush track means the most to him. It has been exciting and informative hearing from Graeme Thomson about a tremendous and endlessly fascinating book that…
EVERY Kate Bush fan should own.
__________
Hi Graeme. Before talking about Under The Ivy: The Life and Music of Kate Bush, I am interested knowing when Kate Bush came into your life. Do you recall the first time you heard her music and how it made you feel?
I don’t recall a particular lightbulb moment for me regarding Kate Bush. I certainly was aware of Wuthering Heights just being in the cultural DNA for as long as I can remember. I remember Running Up That Hill and Hounds of Love coming out as singles; I would have been 12 when they were released in 1985 and I remember seeing her on TOTP. I was a fan of those songs and, later, The Sensual World. Later still, I bought Hounds of Love on vinyl and The Sensual World and The Whole Story on CD, but otherwise didn’t investigate too deeply. I knew the singles, and odd songs engaged with me through the late '80s and into the '90s. Then, of course, she more or less vanished and I wasn’t really keeping up. My ears were elsewhere – in Athens, Georgia and San Francisco and Minneapolis. I probably laughed along with the Alan Partridge stuff.
I would say that it was Aerial that led me to really delve properly into her back catalogue and to explore the full reach of her work. I was drawn initially, I think, to the otherworldly, occult energy in her music. Now, I oscillate between the harder, more rhythmically driven tracks and the very stark piano-based material. There is a sense of tapping into ancient forces in her music which I still find very attractive. It has always been present. The title track of The Kick Inside has it, and so does Lake Tahoe.
“Ultimately, it’s testament to the fact that Kate Bush’s work is endlessly interesting. There’s so much nourishment to be had from digging into it”
I have more than one copy of the book in the form of previous issues. I am excited for this 2024 edition. Did you think, when Under The Ivy: The Life and Music of Kate Bush initially came out, that we would still be talking about it now? How does it feel knowing it has already reached and connected with so many people?
Well, firstly, thank you! I’m obviously very happy that the book has enjoyed such a long shelf life – literally. All you want as a writer is for your books to reach people and to continue to be available to those who might want to read them. For Under The Ivy to be widely appreciated on top of that is very gratifying, but you can’t really dictate that happening: you just have to write the book you want to write and, afterwards, hope it finds its place and its readers. When I first pitched it back in 2008, I really did feel there was a need for a serious, comprehensive and analytical biography of Kate Bush. I thought that had been lacking – and I understood why it had been lacking: because it’s not an easy thing to do. So I am pleased that my hunch paid off and that the book has been generally well regarded and has proved to have staying power, for which I must thank Omnibus Press for keeping it continually in print. I’ve also been lucky.
In the handful of years after Under The Ivy was first published in 2010, Kate Bush was so incredibly productive: two albums and a live show. That helped. Thank you, Kate! There is also the fact that – and we’ve seen this very much to be the case in recent years – her work is still being discovered anew by different demographics and different audiences in different parts of the world. I think that has helped keep the book ticking over, as well. Ultimately, it’s testament to the fact that Kate Bush’s work is endlessly interesting. There’s so much nourishment to be had from digging into it.
Can you recall why you decided to write Under The Ivy: The Life and Music of Kate Bush to start? How did you approach writing the book, and what was it like interviewing people from her world and diving deep?
When you first entertain the idea of writing a book, it’s a conflation of practical, personal and creative reasons, of timing, and luck, and so many other factors. I said in the last answer that I felt there was a gap in the market, to put it bluntly. That helped solidify the idea, in practical terms. Also, the idea of writing a Kate Bush biography was a challenge, and I like a challenge. I just thought there was so much still to say, so much that would be interesting, so much to get involved in.
My approach initially was, first and foremost, to let her know I was doing it – which I did. I sent a letter explaining what I was up to. Then it was a process of working on a wish list of people I wanted to interview, knowing that it was not always going to be possible for various reasons to speak to them all. You start to contact people and explain what you are doing. Sometimes it’s a straight no; sometimes it’s a maybe; sometimes it’s an enthusiastic yes; sometimes silence. As you might imagine, there are various complications when you’re writing about someone like Kate Bush. I was expecting that. I was expecting more complications, in many ways. I was surprised how many people did talk in the end.
“I’m just delighted that she was able to do it, and she did a great job capturing her very personal relationship with the music of Kate Bush”
At the same time, I started reading around the subject. I tend not to read everything at the start of a project. I’ll read enough to get a sense of the shape of a life and the important people in it, but you don’t want to be too fixed on your idea of who this person is before you start; you have to allow room for being surprised and for people telling you unexpected information or leading you down different and sometimes contradictory pathways. To not overreach for definitives is an important part of writing biography. In many ways, this part is the most enjoyable part of the process: the process of discovery, of seeing the life open up in front of you and learning new things as you’re listening to the music. I find the music becomes increasingly enriched as I learn more. Ultimately, that’s really what you are trying to pass on to the reader when you end up writing a book like this: you want to enrich their experience of listening to the music.
The wonderful Sinéad Gleeson provides a foreword to this new edition. How did you two meet and what was it about her writing and love of Kate Bush that meant she was the person to write that foreword?
Actually, I only met Sinéad in person very recently, right after she had written and submitted her foreword. We finally caught up briefly at her event in Edinburgh, where I live. We’ve been in contact sporadically for many years. She was a fan of the original edition of Under The Ivy. She wrote some nice things about it, and we’d been in touch about that. We’ve been in contact on social media and via email about various things since then. She lives in Dublin and we had some communication around my Philip Lynott biography, Cowboy Song. I knew she loved Kate Bush. I had read her journalism and I’d read This Woman’s Work, the collection of essays by woman writers that she edited a couple of years ago with Kim Gordon, which obviously takes its name from the Kate Bush song. I knew she had interviewed Kate Bush – lucky her! She had seen Before the Dawn. So I was aware that she really knew her stuff – over and above the fact that she is a fantastic writer who shares with Kate Bush an innate understanding of folklore, of elemental forces and the power of unseen worlds. So she was top of my list. One of the lovely things was that just after she delivered the foreword – during a very, very busy time for her – I was reading Hagstone, her beautiful new novel. That felt like a nice piece of serendipity. I’m just delighted that she was able to do it, and she did a great job capturing her very personal relationship with the music of Kate Bush.
PHOTO CREDIT: Guido Harari
For those who have not already bought Under The Ivy: The Life and Music of Kate Bush, can you give any insight into new additions and what we might expect?
I wouldn’t want to overstate the extent of the revised edition. The Omnibus Remastered series, of which this is a part, is essentially about reissuing books from the publisher’s back-list with new designs and new forewords. That was the impetus behind Under The Ivy coming out again. When Omnibus said they would like Under The Ivy to be one of the first books in the series, I was delighted and flattered, and I asked whether there might be an opportunity to bring it up to date. They said yes, so I did that. But given that Kate Bush hasn’t released any new music, or appeared anywhere in public, or played any shows since I wrote the 2015 edition, I want to manage people’s expectations! The update covers the obvious things: the Stranger Things/Running Up That Hill phenomenon, which has again shifted her place in our culture, the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, the curation of her back catalogue; there are some new quotes from collaborators. To use a music analogy, it’s essentially a stylish new reissue of a well-thumbed album that has been remastered, polished up and had a couple of bonus tracks added to the tracklisting.
In this case, the ‘bonus tracks’ take the form of a gorgeous new design; a short new preface by me; a beautiful foreword by Sinéad; and then in the final section of the book, the story being brought up to the present. It feels quite satisfying, and gives any new readers or recently engaged Kate Bush fans a pretty complete picture of her career thus far. It is also the first time Under The Ivy has been available in A Format (or mass-market paperback) size, which I’m really delighted about.
PHOTO CREDIT: Brian Aris
There are great quotes in the book from wonderful people like Paddy McAloon and Jude Rogers. How much of a thrill is it knowing that your words have connected with fellow writers and legendary musicians?
It’s hugely flattering. I think it is a testament to Kate Bush as much as anything, people respond to her work in a way that is very generous, and that has perhaps been reflected in how they have responded to my book. With Paddy McAloon, I interviewed him some years ago in a hotel in Durham and he produced two copies of Under The Ivy for me to sign – one to his wife, and one to Wendy Smith – and was very complimentary about it. He’s a lovely man and one of our greatest songwriters, so that meant a lot. So I thought I’d tap him up for a quote! Jude and I both wrote for the much missed Word magazine back in the day. She writes with so much soul; there’s never a false note. Her book, The Sound of Being Human, is original and tremendous, and she’s another writer who really knows her Bushcraft. To receive such lovely words from her, and from Kathryn Williams, Emma Pollock, Rob Young, Laura Barnett and Jim Kerr, all of whom were kind enough to also provide endorsements, is incredibly gratifying.
One of the joys of writing Under The Ivy has been hearing from fellow writers, musicians, artists, whole swathes of people, who have enjoyed it. I was speaking with Chris Bryant, the Labour MP, quite recently, and he told me that his husband loved Kate Bush and that Under The Ivy was a favourite book of his. Little things like that can be very consequential for a writer, whoever it comes from. I get a kick out of any and every person telling me they have enjoyed something I have written.
“East Wickham Farm was a very seductive place to visit in my head – or at least my idea of it was”
I think you have possibly written more words about Kate Bush than anyone alive now (a guess…but I am pretty sure). Did you learn a lot of new things about Kate Bush when writing the book, and do you have a favourite fact/section of the book that was a particular joy to write?
I’m not sure the first part of that statement is true! It can’t be. I learned innumerable things about Kate Bush while writing the book, because I didn’t start with a deep, fan-level knowledge of her at all. I had pretty limited knowledge at the beginning of the process. The book was really an active journey of discovery. Oftentimes my favourite parts of my books cover the early years, pre-fame: with Under The Ivy, it was about establishing the family dynamic, the family background, the musical, artistic, creative and literary touchstones of her work, and a physical sense of place. That’s always really illuminating, but particularly so for Kate Bush, because I think those elements are very, very instructive in terms of understanding not just elements of her work, but also how she operates, how she lives her life and her values system. I wanted to call these things back regularly throughout the book. I thought if I could establish who she is, and where she comes from, at a fairly early stage, then that would pay off all the way through the book. And I loved living in that world! East Wickham Farm was a very seductive place to visit in my head – or at least my idea of it was. It felt like a very safe and magical and creatively stimulating microworld. I really loved being there and going back there when I was writing.
PHOTO CREDIT: John Carder Bush
Do you have a personal favourite Kate Bush album? Mine is The Kick Inside. Is there one that has a very special meaning to you?
The obvious answer would be Hounds of Love. Sometimes it is just a fact that the most popular album, the bestselling album, the album with the big singles on it, might just be the best album, too. I think it is a monumental and pretty much perfect piece of work encompassing so many aspects of her artistry. I love Aerial. As I said earlier, it kickstarted my deeper interest in Kate Bush and I find that album more and more personally resonant as time goes on. I wrote a piece quite recently for Disco Pogo magazine, and I concluded with the idea that Aerial is a song for a life, not just a song of a day. As we get older we accrue experience and loss, our children grow up, we ache more deeply, and yet we still strive to access joy and find ways to escape our quotidian lives. Aerial seems to me to speak to those struggles and rewards so beautifully. The other album I would mention is The Dreaming. I was putting a playlist together recently and I listened to Suspended in Gaffa for the first time in quite a long time – and I really listened to it; sometimes you just let songs drift by – and I thought, Goodness, what a wonderful song that is. The Dreaming has some amazing work on it. It is such a brave and bold and sometimes silly record, and very significant in her development. I love many things about all her albums, but those three are probably my favourites.
It is a question many Kate Bush fans would ask themselves but, if you were to interview her today, what would be your opening question?
(When) Are you going to release a new album, Kate?
If you found yourself in a Desert Island Discs-style scenario and you could only rescue one of Kate Bush’s tracks - the one that is most special to you -, then which would you save?
Hello Earth. There is something about that song that moves me profoundly. The way it evolves from this very personal, intimate, close-up perspective into a vast macro overview of our world and our tiny place in it and on it. It almost feels as though it contains the whole of Hounds of Love in microcosm: it has got very experimental elements; a choral section which is like the moon being obscured by clouds, so darkly, beautifully atmospheric. But it also has lovely, flowing melody, incredible harmonies, wonderful words. It is the ultimate Kate Bush piece for me. Huge in scale and ambition, and I find it very moving.
Finally, we can end with any Kate Bush song that you like. Which one shall we go with? Thank you, Graeme!
Under the Ivy. What else?! It’s such a beautiful little song and it’s great that it seems to have grown into a real fans’ favourite; a treasured deep cut. People complain that it is not on Spotify or other streaming services, but I kind of love that. You need to dig it out a little bit. It is such a special song, so sad and mysterious, with a touch of the occult in there. I’m very pleased I chose it as my title track…